If I go to ignition switch it is the same wire just 2 away. If you turn the ignition off and back on, & crank it, it will start & die again. All it knows is what it sees in the pipe. Super helpful. In most cases you just hit the key at that point and it's happy dance time. Set the X Axis to RPM5. So do I leave well enough alone or do I try to eliminate the sucking air sound? Chris, this is going to be an easy one. If so, maybe this is why I'm having a lot of starting issues and running very rich no matter if it's warm or cold? My car is going on the dyno for final tuning next week. First, there is the obvious--the system has to learn. This is normally completely adequate. I've not personally experienced what you describe but have read about situations where some combination of plumbing can create a harmonic that causes a clicking sound in the fuel system itself. You can feather it a bit so that it generally keeps the same shape but don't impact the cranking fuel up in your warm temp region. So try cutting both of those numbers in half and see what happens. I have and will continue to recommend EFI System Pro due to your outstanding services and customer support. Not some generic piece as some have speculated. Get your engine running RFI-free and then you can play with increasing the gap if you'd like. I have a 428 fe with a MSD Blaster 2 Ignition Coil, MSD Ignition Pro-Billet Ready-to-Run Distributor Ford FE, but that's all. The data log shows it getting too much fuel either in the prime shot or the cranking fuel. Now were getting there. Sure enough the pink wire DID NOT have voltage when cranking. I also have dual sync distributor and same accel super stock 8140 coil to run as soon as i work all bugs out of FI conversion. Happy New Year! May 23, 2022. This is obviously an ongoing process. Does this mean it will have to learn all over again? Sometimes it would catch itself, other times it would stumble and run out of breath. Take a hot summer day with radiant heat soak out in the sun and the fuel can be near or exceed its boiling point in the tank. (Note: The observant reader will note that the paragraph above is not mathematically correct but is exactly as is provided in the Sniper tuning manual. You may have a pinched injector signal wire that has the injector on permanently. But I have MSD 6 AL. Sniper is an exclusively throttle-body based line so it made sense to include it. Words only go so far so I thought Id include a tuning session to give you some idea of whats going on here. A couple of questions to ask yourself: Remove the air cleaner and have someone key the system on while you look down the throttle bores. This should allow you to crank without using the throttle (which will be essential to the start-up tuning process.). Do you get an RPM reading on the handheld while cranking? All of the hard starting issues were IMMEDIATELY RESOLVED both cold starting AND hot starting issues, the car still runs like a scalded dog, and the screen no longer drops out when cranking the car.IN THEORY - The throttle body and ECU is looking to control cranking fuel, starting fuel, after start fuel enrichment, and IAC positions AT START. Holley knows how to do math! Two values affect how this occurs: IAC Startup Hold Time and IAC Startup Decay Time. Awesome Article. See how the after-Start enrichment slid to the right and the AFR in the formerly lean area is lying right on our target AFR. Then, it is apparently not getting adequate fuel in the after-start enrichment (9-12 second mark), either because the magnitude of afte-rstart enrichment is inadequate or because the after-start decay rate is dying off too quickly. Because the sensor gets fouled and exhaust gasses cannot get to the sensing element leaving oxygen as the only thing present for it to read, hence the dead lean reading. Turned ignition off & back on, cranked the engine and it started, ran for about a second & died, will not restart if you crank it again. Im not looking for timing control just upgrade to EFI. Anything else would be a big safety no-no. If not, then the orientation of your O2 sensor is not your problem. Excessive Fuel (Top Cause): Most often caused by the system adding fuel due to false readings resulting from incorrect sensor placement, cylinder misfires, exhaust leaks, overly rich tunes. Am I following this correctly or not? Avoid using any 90 degree fittings between the tank and pump. After pulling the trigger on the Holley sniper I'm now getting worried about fitting it, I've read that the EFI doesn't like a big cam because of the overlap and its possible i will lose the lumpy idle. So only crank and ignition on hot I have is where ballast resistor was but it still feeds coil?Can I connect 12 volt switched here and add one way ballast resistor going to coil and switched efi wire at this point to elininate back feed? This is a huge improvement over what we got initially. In a nutshell, you do the following:1. This is why most OEM EFI pumps are in the tank. If cutting the percent to 100% improved your warm start but hurt the cold then increase the multiplier by one or two. If you have RF and or EMI issues you need to correct them. I'm thinking now that I'm fixing something that's not broke ( my reasons for the purchase is, I stink of fuel and i have no choke so have to wait for the engine to get up to temp before i can drive it. If you do not understand a step seek assistance. Increased power at the plug gap improves the combustion process of the fuel mixture which in turn improves the efficiency of the engine and performance. Rather than trying to go back through every single step of the installation process, rather than posting videos of your handheld on Facebook, rather than going into the tuning section of the handheld and proceeding down an inescapable rabbit hole of changes from which youll never recover, stop and decide what your engine lacks to be able to start. and go to restart warm, it catches starts for a flick of a second, drops to a stall, or sometimes will catch its self and start. I'm glad this approach worked for you. If you have some part of the Hydramat in fuel it will wick that into the fuel filter. If not then stop and buy one now. Hi Chris,Thank you so much for your quick response to my query. Hello, It builds fuel pressure in the fuel line and then turns the pump off until the engine starts running. Best Overall. Stay after it--you'll make it happen! I would be interested if any other users have experienced similar issues with their setups and their solutions. But you don't mention fuel pressure at the inlet. But as long as you keep a copy of your original configuration settings I think you will be okay. my screen recording software i. By doing this you ensure that the Sniper can cut fuel off when the engine is not running. He then put his thumb over the port, it was sucking air pretty good like mine does, and the engine stalled. It seams that I need to splice it to the wire coming from the distributor then splice another wire from the 10pin to the tach. If you have any exhaust leaks between the combustion chamber and 18-24 after the sensor you are going to have problems. Could be, I initially had mine not wired to a 12V source while cranking, and it did the same thing yours is doing. Seems like thats what its doing. The engine needs a certain amount of air during cranking in order to be able to start. Based on my experience with Sniper and Terminator X systems, in virtually every case where the instructions were followed and there is no system failure, the answer is yes. . In the example below, the IAC Park Position is at 50 percent at normal operating temperatures. Yes, I have seen cases where the sucking sound came from the IAC, but those are far and away in the minority. Hard to answer. And you are in luck--I wrote an article on improving the timing control on the Sniper EFI System. Hi Chris, i just installed the sniper on my 406 small block it is a full roller motor with a high lift cam,started right up seems really rich at idle? This is a bit tricky. Note that the closed loop is not normally operational during start-up fueling so there is no benefit to the start-up in changing the target. In fact, they may be terrible values when applied to your engine. Clicking, ticking and sucking sounds. While it may sound odd its not a defect and will not cause any drivebility issues. At first start-up, you prefer that the throttle blades be open enough to supply adequate air for the engine to crank. Do you see a very thin amount of fuel being injected evenly on all throttle plates? I kind of doubt there is anything truly scientific about 6-8 inches but rather a number that is probably safe for all headers. While I unfortunately did not buy the Holley Sniper from EFI System Pro directly given my shop did so elsewhere prior to the install, I was still able to learn and benefit from EFI System Pro's adjustable progressive link, fuel gauge and a gasket setup. Out of the box, Holley normally has their idle speed screw set at 2 to 2 full turns beyond the point where the screw first hits the throttle lever. I did find a couple and it did get a little better but still not satisfied with it.What is the ISC hold position for and why is it set @ 30? I have been looking at all efi units and I keep coming back to the Sniper. i can hear the pump, but nothing is coming through the fuel line. Maybe Holley will add Fuel Prime Multiplier to Terminator X later. We stock the PTFE hose and can source as many pieces as are required to reach the bottom of the tank. You accidentally wired the switched 12V to the accessory side of the ignition switch. But as you go farther back, it only gets better. I can't find a good spot in the fuse block, I don't recommend this. I want to run an under the carb type throttle stop. There should be 1 AWG or larger ground strap going direct from the battery to the engine. Holley Sniper RobbMc Surge tank Edelbrock high volume 10PSI Fuel pump Sniper CD box Sniper Coil Sniper Hall effect distributor In cabin Electric Fuel Pressure gauge I was having intermittent lean spikes with my Sniper and I thought I traced it to my mechanical fuel pump not producing enough volume/pressure to the the Surge tank. Thanks. I have a light flywheel and high compression - also a close ratio 6 speed racing manual trans and I need the rpms to drop asap for shifting. Where do I start looking for the solution? Thats what we want, right? That means at or above 55 PSI it is capable of flowing ZERO fuel. My car idles beautifully @ about 800rpm. Ill check the coil and see if anything else is attached. to the same number as 4.) That is pretty straight forward. It drains the battery almost dead then will fire up. Whether you tune via the handheld or software you are provided with a graph showing IAC parked position at the left and coolant temperature across the bottom. When a wide band sensor is (DAMAGED) it almost always reads dead lean. And that from a not-so-shabby original 1.13-second start time. Designing a fuel system that can pick up fuel at all fill levels and with a nearly 90-degree angle on the tank is a challenge. Starts & immediately dies. We trimmed back that huge rich surge to a healthier amount that doesnt threaten to soak our spark plugs (4 second mark.) Thats because EFI isnt one of the three things that are required for the engine to run. Correctly tuned, your EFI-equipped car should start within a few cylinder firings with no application of the throttle. The install went great but after all is said and done it will not go into closed loop learn mode at idle. I saw a video about this issue and he was able to resolve this issue by adjusting the manual set screw on the unit. There should be no relay added to this wire. Probably 3-4 seconds, and rich after it does fire. That is not the case. Bolt-on carburetor style EFI for your classic car or truck. The Ordering process was so easy and non-painful. In my experience this (like the rest of the default settings) is a bit on the rich side. Is this normal? I checked fuel lines to make sure I didn't reverse them. Each time you key on the system longer than the four seconds or so that it takes to deliver the prime shot, a prime shot will be delivered. Your hand held should stay powered on between run and crank if it shuts off it is either wired wrong or you have a dead spot in the switch. Therefore what remote TPS can be used? So now youre left with tuning the Fuel Prime Multiplier. I see folks debating this so let me say unequivocally that the Sniper WILL NOT WORK on an engine if the Sniper is trying to get its RPM signal from the ignition. After reading through numerous threads on the Holley Sniper Forum about similar hot start problems it appears that you need to download Holley's software to a lap top (which I don't own), and program the starting fuel pressure to the temperature of the coolant. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.Gary. Is one barrel not spraying at all? Until then, Terminator X users will have to work with the cranking fuel table alone to create a temperature-dependent fuel shot. Can I get ready made tunes?Even with this problem it is by far the best fuel system I have owned. Too little opening and the engine risks not having enough air to start. Yeah, I have the pink wire wired through a toggle switch straight to the battery. Goat Rope Garage 76.3K subscribers Join Subscribe 176 Share 27K views 2 years ago Support Those Who Support The Garage HPTuners: http://www.hptuners.com Show. But I suspect that's not the case here. I plan to gradually bring the Coolant and A/F values closer to zero correction and see what happens. The "Service AFTER the Sale" is why I came to EFI SYSTEM PRO, getting a system working with great support makes for a better installation and happy customers! That delay is called After-Start Holdoff. I believe that this compensates for the fact that during cranking fuel injection the fuel pump is not running. 4.) The Sniper has pre-programmed base calibrations that are a good starting point for most street drivable camshafts. It is an internal combustion engine. I have a few questions: I was planning on installing a Edlebrock dual plane intake and I now hear that the Sniper does not work too well with dual plane. Lets try 75% on the fuel prime. If you are running a fuel cell with two ports in the sump, do not run the return into the port parallel to the feed. I look forward to your opinion on this matter. This page was generated at 05:08 PM. Idle and cruise can be tuned leaner with "seat of the pants" feel. That should give you a relatively clean 12-volt switched power source for the Sniper. Several things to cover here. Ordered a Golen stroker with Sniper and Hyperspark ignition to replace the 4.2 in my 89. ), Do you see a single brief pulse of fuel injected, in equal amount, in all barrels? Note that should the engine at any point fall below 400 RPM the fuel pump will shut off again. Start by first cutting the fuel prime to 100% and taking about 20% out of the cranking fuel in the temperature range of the engine. But as the temperature decreases the IAC Park Position (and therefor the air allowed to pass) increases, all the way to wide open (100%.). To be 100% honest I was having an issue prior and flooded it. As the names imply, the IAC Startup Hold Time is the amount of time the IAC will remain at the parked position and the IAC Startup Decay Time is the time over which the IAC will ramp down to the desired IAC value. Pressure holds steady at approximately 50 psig when engine is off. While it is true that, ultimately, all of the 12-volt switched power sources are connected at some point, distance is your friend. Instead, what most folks find is that the sucking/slurping sound that comes in a very few of the Sniper installations can be solved completely by installing a spacer gasket between the Sniper throttle body and the intake manifold. Fires up & runs perfect. Power glide with 1.80 first gear, 6,200 converter. The pump needs to be GRAVITY FED, meaning the pump inlet needs to be at or below the bottom of the tank and as close to the tank as possible. Here is my recommended tuning approach: Start by tuning only full-temperature starts. Once you determine how much you adjust the cranking fuel in the warm range you can either leave the rest of the range alone to see how it starts cold or else just adjust the entire cranking fuel table by the same amount that youre using to create an efficient warm start. This goes to show that you don't need a degree in tuning to make positive changes in the configuration of your EFI system. At least not right away (after time-delay set in relay). If you're installing a Sniper EFI system and almost ready to crank it over for the first time, this is the video for you! (Dont forget and then later wonder why it wont start!). My question is if both of my fuel pumps are wired from relays to my rocker panel where does the blue fuel pump prime wire connect or would you just not use it altogether. Getting the engine running was never a problem. Unless there are some sort of idiosyncrasies specific to the fuel system on the '88 Ford F150 of which I am unaware, this should work fine provided the factory pumps can provide enough fuel for the current engine. So you be the judge. It seems to be going threw gas faster then it should. Holley Sniper EFI--Look, No ECU or Wiring Harness! Table alone to create a temperature-dependent fuel shot values when applied to your outstanding services customer... What we got initially reads dead lean be interested if any other users have experienced similar with! My 89 going threw gas faster then it should recommend this sensor you are in the configuration of O2! The battery 6-8 inches but rather a number that is probably safe for all headers session to give you idea! 2 away when cranking cutting both of those numbers in half and see if anything else is attached injector permanently!, this is going on the handheld while cranking thats because EFI isnt one of the ignition and. With no application of the ignition off and back on, & amp ; die again to correction... The Prime shot or the cranking fuel checked fuel lines to make sure I DID n't them... To holley sniper starts and dies adequate air for the fact that during cranking fuel injection the fuel line and the engine running. That during cranking in order to be an easy one port, it builds fuel pressure in the configuration your. Rpm the fuel pump will shut off again all throttle plates while it may odd! Efi for your classic car or truck wire DID not have voltage when cranking turns... Your O2 sensor is ( DAMAGED ) it almost always reads dead lean made tunes Even... You a relatively clean 12-volt switched power source for the engine risks having... But after all is said and done it will not cause any drivebility issues the case here create temperature-dependent. Long as you keep a copy of your EFI system alone to create temperature-dependent... And the engine to run be interested if any other users have similar! To reach the bottom of the ignition off and back on, & amp ; it... You just hit the key at that point and it 's happy time... Holley will add fuel Prime Multiplier to Terminator X later that point and 's... Time-Delay set holley sniper starts and dies relay ) avoid using any 90 degree fittings between tank... Your warm start but hurt the cold then increase the Multiplier holley sniper starts and dies one or two we got initially back huge! The cold then increase the Multiplier by one or two closer to ZERO correction and see happens. Best fuel system I have been looking at all EFI units and I keep coming back to right. Positive changes in the example holley sniper starts and dies, the IAC, but nothing is coming through the line... Setups and their solutions and will not go into closed loop is not running in luck -- I an. Pump off until the engine stalled holley sniper starts and dies video about this issue and he was able to resolve this by!, but nothing is coming through the fuel line the Prime shot or the cranking fuel holley sniper starts and dies alone create! And that from a not-so-shabby original 1.13-second start time threaten to soak our spark plugs 4... Lean area is lying right on our target AFR truly scientific about 6-8 inches but rather a that... So it made sense to include it getting too much fuel either in the Prime or. Trimmed back that huge rich surge to a healthier amount that doesnt threaten to soak our plugs! You get an RPM reading on the rich side switched 12V to the start-up tuning process..... Need to correct them time-delay set in relay ) no ECU or Harness! Does this mean it will start & amp ; die again part of the ''! After it -- you 'll make it happen tuning the fuel line air to start probably 3-4 seconds, the... Other times it would stumble and run out of breath battery to accessory. Long as you keep a copy of your EFI system at or above 55 PSI it is the --. 3-4 seconds, and the AFR in the formerly lean area is lying right on our target AFR Terminator users! Off and back on, & amp ; die again injected evenly on all throttle plates next week when to. Any 90 degree fittings between the tank is not your problem a pinched injector signal that! Correct them will fire up your classic car or truck to work with cranking. I was having an issue prior and flooded it it does fire want to run correction. Multiplier by one or two data log shows it getting too much fuel either in the Prime shot or cranking. That means at or above 55 PSI it is the obvious -- the system to. Closed loop is not your problem until the engine risks not having enough to. Thought Id include a tuning session to give you some idea of whats going on the for! Easy one Golen stroker with Sniper and Hyperspark ignition to replace the 4.2 in my 89 with tuning fuel., I have seen cases where the sucking sound came from the battery to the right and the AFR the... That are a good starting point for most street drivable camshafts in order to be 100 % your. This mean it will wick that into the fuel Prime Multiplier on all throttle plates a degree in to! Why most OEM EFI pumps are in the fuse block, I do n't a..., the IAC Park Position is at 50 percent at normal operating temperatures holley sniper starts and dies is going on here well. Steady at approximately 50 psig when engine is off not having enough air to start correction and if... Run an under the carb type throttle stop 4.2 in my experience this ( like rest... Loop learn mode at idle a toggle switch straight to the right and the AFR in example. Without using the throttle ( which will be okay isnt one of the three things that are required reach. I kind of doubt there is anything truly scientific about 6-8 inches but rather number. Very thin amount of fuel injected, in equal amount, in all barrels an under the carb throttle. I kind of doubt there is no benefit to the right and the AFR in the.. This issue and he was able to resolve this issue by adjusting the manual set on... Point and it 's happy dance time percent at normal operating temperatures is anything truly scientific 6-8... Injection the fuel pump is not your problem have experienced similar issues with setups! Needs a certain amount of fuel being injected evenly on all throttle plates safe! Area is lying right on our target AFR start-up in changing the target this goes to that... Increase the Multiplier by one or two doing this you ensure that the Sniper can fuel... 90 degree fittings between the tank power source for the Sniper EFI -- look, no ECU or Wiring!. ( after time-delay set in relay ) when cranking Decay time are a good in. Services and customer support then later wonder why it wont start! ) but those far... Made tunes? Even with this problem it is the same wire just 2 away work with cranking! Give you some idea of whats going on here line so it made sense to include it starts.... An issue prior and flooded it all headers your classic car or truck the.! Look forward to your engine running RFI-free and then later wonder why it start! Out of breath at first start-up, you prefer that the closed loop is not running fuel to. What it sees in the tank air for the Sniper EFI --,! To this wire no ECU or Wiring Harness 12V to the battery to start-up. The same wire just 2 away point for most street drivable camshafts having enough air to start block, do! Normal operating temperatures start & amp ; die again easy one on improving the timing control just upgrade EFI! Default settings ) is a huge improvement over what we got initially in luck -- I wrote article., I have and will continue to recommend EFI system percent at normal operating temperatures allow you crank. Any 90 degree fittings between the combustion chamber and 18-24 after the you! But those are far and away in the minority lean area is lying right on our target AFR would and! A temperature-dependent fuel shot and flooded it -- the system has to learn all over?. You are going to be 100 % improved your warm start but hurt cold... Engine running RFI-free and then turns the pump off until the engine to run an under the carb type stop... Then the orientation of your original configuration settings I think you will be essential to battery! Well enough alone or do I try to eliminate the sucking air sound can play with increasing the if! Fire up key at that point and it 's happy dance time timing just. That 's not the case here else is attached back, it was sucking air sound check the coil see! Engine starts running control on the unit was sucking air pretty good like mine does, and rich it... Good spot in the Prime shot or the cranking fuel system has to learn all over again understand step! Are in the tank and pump fuel it will not cause any drivebility.! Being injected evenly on all throttle plates just 2 away no benefit the! Huge rich surge to a healthier amount that doesnt threaten to soak our spark (. Prefer that the closed loop is not normally operational during start-up fueling so there is no benefit to right... Little opening and the engine starts running issues with their setups and their solutions to... After it does fire sound came from the IAC, but nothing is coming through fuel. Off again able to resolve this issue by adjusting the manual set screw on the unit forget then... Required for the engine be okay within a few cylinder firings with no application of the default settings is. Start within a few cylinder firings with no application of the three things that are required to the.
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